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James Carville eats Palin supporter, Michelle Bachman (R-Min
I understand that the kind of vetting that you refer to holds value. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about a deep examination into his career.
Not to be too snide, but you do understand how elections work, right? People very often will vote for who they feel "comfortable" with, above any other consideration. Generally speaking (and I realize that the 2000 and 2004 elections didn't work this way), the person who gets more votes gets the Presidency. I suppose that's a popularity contest.
I understand exactly why people vote for him. That's why I debate the issues. Because there isn't enough of that going on. It's mostly just propaganda.
I believe my point is still valid: Just because people are comfortable, doesn't mean they know much about his policies and voting history. According to something I heard on the radio today, while serving on the Illinois State Senate, despite the fact that he was present, Barack Obama was unable to decide yea or nay, 130 times.
Before I address your specific concerns, I'll note that you're phrasing the argument in terms of Obama's plan, rather than touting the superiority of another candidates'. Perhaps you're part of the media elite that the DNC controls who can't stop talking about Obama?
I also need to ask when Republicans are planning on holding Bush accountable for his deficit? You know, that $482 billion one you mentioned, plus the "emergency" spending levied for the war in Iraq that wasn't on the budget. Never? Is McCain somehow immune from being held responsible for the Republican party's failings over the last 8 years, despite being that party's standard-bearer?
Politics aside, you're making a valid (if one-sided) argument -- based purely on policy promises from Obama, the proposed tax plan doesn't pay for the spending proposals. But McCain's doesn't either.
My argument is one-sided because I'm not defending anyone who is running for President. I'm not Pro-McCain, I'm Anti-Obama.
If a balanced budget is your primary economic concern (and it's not my primary one, personally), here's what the two candidates offer:
Obama does not commit to balance the budget, just reduce the deficit, and his plan looks to reduce the level to approx $250bn/yr.
McCain on the other hand commits to balancing the budget in his first term, but his proposals point to a $370bn/yr deficit.
Which makes you more comfortable?
Do you realize how much our deficit, the weakening dollar, and the high price of fuel have in common. It's a snowball effect that trickles down to the price of food and the wages we're paid. Getting the country out of debt is on my top 3 list of things for the next Pres to accomplish. I want him to whittle the deficit down as much as possible.
If you don't mind, could you cite your sources on those projected deficit figures you references? I'd love to read up on that.
James Carville eats Palin supporter, Michelle Bachman (R-Min
Just because people are comfortable with him, doesn't mean they know anything about him. It's because he won the popularity contest that is the DNC by first landing in the good graces of the media.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1828309,00.html
Again, I don't like McCain and I know that there are people out there that are much more qualified to be VP than Palin.
Obama favors "pay-as-you-go" accounting so new spending or tax cuts are offset by program cuts or increased revenue, but he hasn't said how he would pay for all his tax proposals.
One thing in particular eats at me: How is he going to pay for universal-health-care and all his other promises? Is he going to give us all heath care by the time he leaves office? WHEN he doesn't make that happen, are the democrats going to hold him accountable?
What about the $482 Billion deficit? He's gonna save the American economy by cutting taxes, providing $300 Billion in guarantees for mortgage renegotiations, providing universal-health care and still, somehow, he'll manage to pay down the deficit?
All these promises have been vetted?
>> ^NetRunner:
>> ^deedub81:
@Fjnbk:
Yep. That's the difference. We haven't had an opportunity to vote for or against Palin. That's how it works.
The fact that Obama has campaigned longer doesn't mean he has more experience.
The bit about voting has become something of a lefty talking point, but saying "Everyone in the world has been vetting Obama since he declared his candidacy in January of 2007, and a majority of primary voters still chose him" is still a pretty sound argument that Americans have reached a comfort level with his ability to lead.
Add in that his campaign has employed more people, and commanded a larger budget than the Governor's office has, and the argument gets stronger still. Then consider that the Governor will naturally be focused on state-level concerns, while the Obama campaign has had to respond to questions about every area of the political landscape, from affirmative action to trade relations with China, and it gets stronger still.
Palin is unknown to most people, no one selected her in a primary, and the election is 62 days from now. McCain is 72 years old, with a medical history that includes cancer -- if he dies, she'll be President. What do we know about her?
Not a lot, and in just 4 days, the press has found quite a bit to be concerned about.
Vietnam vet medic lectures cops at RNC
But seriously, I wonder what set him off? Those policemen are like statues.
Palin-Iraq And My Job Is God's Will (June 2008)
...anything that is virtuous or good or a noble cause, is considered God's will.
She didn't say that they are on God's errand, she basically said: Pray so that they will do good, and that our leaders will send them to Iraq for a good reason.
Police arrest Amy Goodman at RNC (what police state)
I'm trying to point out the fact that most people involved in this discussion are ignoring: She disobeyed a direct order from a police officer in a police line. He wasn't joking. He wanted her to move to the sidewalk. He could have been nicer to her. That doesn't give her a leg to stand on, legally speaking.
Come to think of it, I'll be REALLY surprised if the charges aren't dropped.
Democracy Now producer films her own RNC arrest
People tend to ask for the police to explain their (the police's) orders before they obey them. You should do what they say, and ask questions later.
Getting arrested for not immediately heading the commands of a police officer doesn't make you a hero.
Police arrest Amy Goodman at RNC (what police state)
She tried to break through a police line and repeatedly disobeyed a direct order while resisting the police.
Sorry. Can't do that in a free country either. She could have said whatever she wanted from the sidewalk.
She'll get a fair trial. The police don't interpret the law, judges do. She was detained for 3 hours and then set free.
Police state? Have you ever been to China or Russia? I believe we need to be mindful of legislation that impedes on our freedoms and reverse the downward trend, but we can't break the law to do it.
Stop whining.
Sarah Palin, Hottie Sports Reporter
That's obviously not very relevant, considering...
chilaxe
In reply to this comment by chilaxe:
>> ^deedub81:
I see your point, but the humor of the situation derives from that the GOP's main argument up until a week ago was that experience was the most important issue for a presidential ticket.
James Carville eats Palin supporter, Michelle Bachman (R-Min
Yep. That's the difference. We haven't had an opportunity to vote for or against Palin. That's how it works.
The fact that Obama has campaigned longer doesn't mean he has more experience.
@chilaxe
Good point.
Fjnbk
The fact that he's campaigned longer doesn't have anything to do with experience.
In reply to this comment by Fjnbk:
>> ^deedub81:
Palin is obviously not the most qualified Republican, but Obama isn't the most qualified democrat in the country. The objective wasn't to select the most qualified running mate. The voters don't mandate that kind of logic. We don't always vote for the best candidate. It's a populatity contest to a certain extent. McCain selected Palin because he thought she would improve his chances of being elected. It's a political move. Are you surprised?
P.S. I love how anytime there is any kind of a debate posted on videosift, the approval of the viewers here always sides with the better scoff artist. I'm not taking a side on this one; I think they both bring up some valid statements as well as some completely irrelevant statements.
The difference being that Obama was selected by 18 million voters after more than a year of running for president, while Palin was selected by the McCain campaign after a fifteen minute interview.
John McCain's new running mate
How does my political affiliation have anything to do with whether or not I post on your profile?
In reply to this comment by rougy:
I told you not to talk to me on my profile any more, didn't I?
Doesn't matter, though. You're a conservative Republican and you're going to do whatever you want, huh? That's very typical you you, Deedub, and people like you. You don't give a shit about anyone.
I asked you not to argue this stuff with me on my privete profile. Doesn't matter, you're going to send me another message telling me how "skewed" my argument is.
So, who's the one who had to delete information about Barack Obama in order to make it seem like he only had as much experience as Sarah Palin?
You did. You are the one who skewed the info.
By the way, there are several videos on the Sift that are claiming essentially what I am claiming.
Why don't you post there? Go there and defend all of Palin's experience!
I'd rather you didn't continue this asinine conversation on my profile.
I'd ask you again not to respond and to keep these arguments on the boards, but hey, you're a conservative republican and what I want just doesn't fucking matter, does it?
In reply to this comment by deedub81:
Wow. I must have hit a nerve.
Take a chill pill.
I was not trying to convince anyone that Palin is the best choice for the republican ticket. I don't think McCain and Palin are the best candiates to lead our Nation. I was simply attacking your skewed and unfair argument. I'm sorry if that hurt your feelings.
In reply to this comment by rougy:
You are so full of shit it's sad. Typical of the American Con, you completely ignore what is relevant and embrace whatever triffle you think proves your point.
You're an asshole, man. I'd appreciate it if you'd keep this shit to the posts instead of dirtying my profile with your stupidity.
In reply to this comment by deedub81:
You didn't supply a summary of Palin's achievements. If you remove the summary of what Obama has done since being elected it turns into this:
Palin served two terms on the Wasilla, Alaska City Council from 1992 to 1996, and was elected mayor of Wasilla in 1996. In 2002, she was elected Governor of Alaska.
Obama was elected to, and seved in the Illinois State Senate from 1997-2004. He was elected to serve in the US House of Representatives in 2000.
In short: Palin has exactly 5 more years of experience in government, and 6 more years of experience in an executive position. It comes across a lot differently when you write it out in non-propoganda format.
Fox News Gets Reefer Madness Over So-Called Killer Marijuana
OH, SNAP!
drattus
In reply to this comment by drattus:
I replied to the post in-thread, it's been a few days so I wasn't sure you'd still see it and thought I should let you know in case you cared.
In reply to this comment by deedub81:
According to the FDA, 249 medical marijuana patients were killed between 1/1/97 - 6/30/05. Marijuana, cannibis, and other Cannabinoids are listed as the secondary cause of death. It is unclear in the study how many people were prescribed marijuana between those dates.
If it doesn't kill you, it will most certainly make you as dumb as a bag of nails.
[snip]
rougy
Take a chill pill.
I was not trying to convince anyone that Palin is the best choice for the republican ticket. I don't think McCain and Palin are the best candiates to lead our Nation. I was simply attacking your skewed and unfair argument. I'm sorry if that hurt your feelings.
In reply to this comment by rougy:
You are so full of shit it's sad. Typical of the American Con, you completely ignore what is relevant and embrace whatever triffle you think proves your point.
You're an asshole, man. I'd appreciate it if you'd keep this shit to the posts instead of dirtying my profile with your stupidity.
In reply to this comment by deedub81:
You didn't supply a summary of Palin's achievements. If you remove the summary of what Obama has done since being elected it turns into this:
Palin served two terms on the Wasilla, Alaska City Council from 1992 to 1996, and was elected mayor of Wasilla in 1996. In 2002, she was elected Governor of Alaska.
Obama was elected to, and seved in the Illinois State Senate from 1997-2004. He was elected to serve in the US House of Representatives in 2000.
In short: Palin has exactly 5 more years of experience in government, and 6 more years of experience in an executive position. It comes across a lot differently when you write it out in non-propoganda format.